Racism at the University of Alabama. Who knew?

[novatiger]

Mar 26, 2014 13:51:52 GMT -6 michael said:

Mar 26, 2014 13:01:42 GMT -6 baldy1 said:

don't see the "breaking down barriers" at that little golf course in Georgia as accomplishing much of anything. Yay, they now have a black member there. It was symbolic but did anything change there? Nope. How many times do your reckon condaleeza has actually played there? In my feeble mind, It accomplished nada.

As far as taking the steps to integrate the military and schools and such, I obviously applaud those efforts. It took unbelievable bravery to take that stand for something that really mattered. But a fraternity? Is that really worth spending time on trying to integrate? I just don't see it as a worthwhile effort.

I'm all about including folks of all race, creed, colors, and even Norm. I can tell you I would have certainly been open to considering a black person for membership. But it seems to me like a lot of time will be wasted in trying to make a statement and force ignorant college students that have a little beer drinking club to accept folks of different races. if it was something of substance that was excluding them, then sure, but frats aren't on the same level as the military or schools, etc.

It's the exact same principle. Racism should be fought at all levels.

I don't think any undue attention is being focused on this greek situation. The integration of the military and schools makes it into history books, which is appropriate. Integrating a golf club 40 years after the civil rights movement (I'm thinking of Augusta in 1990, not Condi being the first female) made the news, which is appropriate. This Alabama thing apparently made it onto a couple of blogs, which is appropriate. It's news, but it's not like people are treating the story like the Crimean invasion or anything. People aren't chaining themselves to the Greek houses and going on hunger strikes. We're just shining some light on instituational racism and pubicly shaming it, which is appropriate. So no, I don't think this is just the most important thing in the world, but neither is the zombie apocalypse or many of the other things we argue about around here. If something is wrong, and you can be a part of fixing it, why not do it, even if it won't end up in the history books?

And, since you are a white male (albeit, bald), it's very presumptious to tell the two black girls who were rejected at Alabama based on their race how they should feel. It's presumptious to tell them or the people fighting to change their culture that the racism there just isn't that big of deal. I doubt you've ever been in that sort of situation before where you are rejected because of your race. So if a black person was admitted, and they broke down the doors, would it be symbolic? Maybe. But it would be much more than merely symbolic to the black person who wanted in the sorority/fraternity. It would be a tangible change in the right direction.

Michael is spot on.

The other aspect is someone saw this as wrong and tried to fix it, or at least discourage it through the student senate. It was overwhelming voted down. What does that say about the attitude of the white students to the blacks on campus?

No one has argued for a legal fix or establishing quotas. This is just shining a light on a problem. Hatred hates to be exposed.

[baldy1]

Mar 26, 2014 13:51:52 GMT -6 michael said:

Mar 26, 2014 13:01:42 GMT -6 baldy1 said:

don't see the "breaking down barriers" at that little golf course in Georgia as accomplishing much of anything. Yay, they now have a black member there. It was symbolic but did anything change there? Nope. How many times do your reckon condaleeza has actually played there? In my feeble mind, It accomplished nada.

As far as taking the steps to integrate the military and schools and such, I obviously applaud those efforts. It took unbelievable bravery to take that stand for something that really mattered. But a fraternity? Is that really worth spending time on trying to integrate? I just don't see it as a worthwhile effort.

I'm all about including folks of all race, creed, colors, and even Norm. I can tell you I would have certainly been open to considering a black person for membership. But it seems to me like a lot of time will be wasted in trying to make a statement and force ignorant college students that have a little beer drinking club to accept folks of different races. if it was something of substance that was excluding them, then sure, but frats aren't on the same level as the military or schools, etc.

It's the exact same principle. Racism should be fought at all levels.

I don't think any undue attention is being focused on this greek situation. The integration of the military and schools makes it into history books, which is appropriate. Integrating a golf club 40 years after the civil rights movement (I'm thinking of Augusta in 1990, not Condi being the first female) made the news, which is appropriate. This Alabama thing apparently made it onto a couple of blogs, which is appropriate. It's news, but it's not like people are treating the story like the Crimean invasion or anything. People aren't chaining themselves to the Greek houses and going on hunger strikes. We're just shining some light on instituational racism and pubicly shaming it, which is appropriate. So no, I don't think this is just the most important thing in the world, but neither is the zombie apocalypse or many of the other things we argue about around here. If something is wrong, and you can be a part of fixing it, why not do it, even if it won't end up in the history books?

And, since you are a white male (albeit, bald), it's very presumptious to tell the two black girls who were rejected at Alabama based on their race how they should feel. It's presumptious to tell them or the people fighting to change their culture that the racism there just isn't that big of deal. I doubt you've ever been in that sort of situation before where you are rejected because of your race. So if a black person was admitted, and they broke down the doors, would it be symbolic? Maybe. But it would be much more than merely symbolic to the black person who wanted in the sorority/fraternity. It would be a tangible change in the right direction.

Yeah, as a white bald male, I've never been subjected to such exclusion so perhaps I sound even more ignorant than usual as it obviously has controversy associated with it. But this ain't no rosa parks worthy moment in my mind.

The angle I was trying to take - It's like my kid at school. He wants to be friends with a kid at school but the kid is mean to him. I tired of seeing him upset about it so I asked him to find some other kids to play with that aren't mean. He did and now he's happier. He now sees the other kid for what he is - a jerk. That's a simplistic approach and I realize how it may sound (separate but equal), but I'm simply looking at it pragmatically as opposed to it being of generational importance and an earth changing action.

[michael]

Mar 26, 2014 14:02:49 GMT -6 baldy1 said:

Mar 26, 2014 13:51:52 GMT -6 michael said:

It's the exact same principle. Racism should be fought at all levels.

I don't think any undue attention is being focused on this greek situation. The integration of the military and schools makes it into history books, which is appropriate. Integrating a golf club 40 years after the civil rights movement (I'm thinking of Augusta in 1990, not Condi being the first female) made the news, which is appropriate. This Alabama thing apparently made it onto a couple of blogs, which is appropriate. It's news, but it's not like people are treating the story like the Crimean invasion or anything. People aren't chaining themselves to the Greek houses and going on hunger strikes. We're just shining some light on instituational racism and pubicly shaming it, which is appropriate. So no, I don't think this is just the most important thing in the world, but neither is the zombie apocalypse or many of the other things we argue about around here. If something is wrong, and you can be a part of fixing it, why not do it, even if it won't end up in the history books?

And, since you are a white male (albeit, bald), it's very presumptious to tell the two black girls who were rejected at Alabama based on their race how they should feel. It's presumptious to tell them or the people fighting to change their culture that the racism there just isn't that big of deal. I doubt you've ever been in that sort of situation before where you are rejected because of your race. So if a black person was admitted, and they broke down the doors, would it be symbolic? Maybe. But it would be much more than merely symbolic to the black person who wanted in the sorority/fraternity. It would be a tangible change in the right direction.

Yeah, as a white bald male, I've never been subjected to such exclusion so perhaps I sound even more ignorant than usual as it obviously has controversy associated with it. But this ain't no rosa parks worthy moment in my mind.

The angle I was trying to take - It's like my kid at school. He wants to be friends with a kid at school but the kid is mean to him. I tired of seeing him upset about it so I asked him to find some other kids to play with that aren't mean. He did and now he's happier. He now sees the other kid for what he is - a jerk. That's a simplistic approach and I realize how it may sound (separate but equal), but I'm simply looking at it pragmatically as opposed to it being of generational importance and an earth changing action.

I get that. I think that analogy works with regard to actually changing racists. You can't go make Brosef Fratter McBrosky like black people all of a sudden, just like you can't make the mean kid not be d-bag. But you can communicate to organizations that it's not socially acceptable to act on their racist instincts. In your analogy, that'd be like making it difficult for your son's enemy/potential friend to organize the class to systematically ostrasize your son. That'd be a good and worthwhile thing, right? Even if it isn't Rosa Parks on a bus.

[baldy1]

Mar 26, 2014 14:14:04 GMT -6 michael said:

Mar 26, 2014 14:02:49 GMT -6 baldy1 said:

Yeah, as a white bald male, I've never been subjected to such exclusion so perhaps I sound even more ignorant than usual as it obviously has controversy associated with it. But this ain't no rosa parks worthy moment in my mind.

The angle I was trying to take - It's like my kid at school. He wants to be friends with a kid at school but the kid is mean to him. I tired of seeing him upset about it so I asked him to find some other kids to play with that aren't mean. He did and now he's happier. He now sees the other kid for what he is - a jerk. That's a simplistic approach and I realize how it may sound (separate but equal), but I'm simply looking at it pragmatically as opposed to it being of generational importance and an earth changing action.

I get that. I think that analogy works with regard to actually changing racists. You can't go make Brosef Fratter McBrosky like black people all of a sudden, just like you can't make the mean kid not be d-bag. But you can communicate to organizations that it's not socially acceptable to act on their racist instincts. In your analogy, that'd be like making it difficult for your son's enemy/potential friend to organize the class to systematically ostrasize your son. That'd be a good and worthwhile thing, right? Even if it isn't Rosa Parks on a bus.

If the d-bag kid organizes and ostracizes my kid, I'll just tell my kid to go tornadic and start punching people in their money makers. That'll teach em. Apparently I'm going to need to stop by the school tomorrow and stand outside and taunt that little d-bag bully kid that is probably organizing the ostracism of my son. I'll show that little $&#€!!

[artvandelay NP]

hey! I used to be one of those racist jerks. having said that, I have now learned that people are people so we should'nt get along awfully. I've learned to get along with eurasians, norms, who knows what bubbs is, and bald people to a certain degree.

Hi, I'm Art and I've grown oh so much.

[Norm]

MJT, baldy/baldy1/doofus and art should quit talking about me.

[steve]

I think michael is just wanting to breakdown the sexist barriers at a sorority.

[bubbs]

Baldy1 is the guy second from the left

[CHB]

I just want to see egg on uat's face any chance I get.

[artvandelay NP]

thats not how this works, thats not how any of this works.

[Norm]

I unfriend you.