A can of worms

[novatiger]

And I'm going to open it. Something came to my attention several days ago and I need to rant about it. The linked radio segment is hosted by Rick Wiles and his guest is Fred Luter, the president of the Southern Baptist Convention. Its all offensive but please start at 30 min and listen to about 42 or 3. If you don't have time for that, start at 38 min which is the worst part.

Why am I bringing it here? The Southern Baptists are strongest in the south. If you don't attend a Southern Baptist church you probably have friends that do. You need to be aware of what the leader of this church believes.

www.trunews.com/Audio/3_27_13_wednesday_trunews2.mp3

This is the President of one of the largest Protestant denominations in the country and his message is the same as that of the Westboro Baptist Church. The only difference is he's not preaching it at a funeral for a service man who gave his life for his country. Wiles leads him to it, but Luter takes it and runs with it willingly.

The problem with this message is that it inspires fear. LGBT people and allies who are trying to secure basic rights are going to cause God to bring down the country. How do you react to that fear? You get angry at those people who are going to bring destruction on your country. You start to hate them for what they're doing. Maybe you attack them verbally or physically. I don't care if these are their honest beliefs or not. FEAR, ANGER AND HATE ARE NOT CHRISTIAN VALUES but they are what Westboro, Rick Wiles and Fred Luter deal in. This is not simple opposition to our goals, which are to protect our jobs, lives, families and loves. This is demonization of us as people.

I am a gay rights activist. I am proud that I was outside the Supreme Court last week not just participating but working to make it successful. This is not some abstract "they" that Wiles and Luter are talking about. They are talking about me personally. If you agree with what they say (and I really hope no one here does) then that is what you think of me personally. This is not something abstract for me. This can have enormous impact on my life.

I understand that the Southern Baptists give the congregations a large amount of control over their own doctrine and that Luter's views are not necessarily reflected in many of them. If you attend a Southern Baptist Church and do not agree with Luter please speak out. Tell your pastor and write a letter to the appropriate officers. Let it be known that he does not speak for you.

[aumom]

Nova, I hear you. What will make a difference is Christ followers acting in a loving manner. While we may have differences of doctrine, I believe we can agree on kindness and patience with other seekers of the Way.

[novatiger]

Thanks Mom. I do try to be tolerant of others' beliefs, but you can't just keep saying the same things and claim that you're saying it in love. I've had some very hateful things said to me with that claim. We need the churches to make a genuine attempt to understand US, not what the they think the bible says about us. Until they can remove their filter of a few verses and start to look at us as people I don't see them changing. And that's too bad because it's harming the churches as much as us.

We're different in one respect. We didn't ask for nor can we change that difference. But otherwise, we are the same as the rest of you with the same hopes and dreams for our lives.

[Deleted]

I'm not even sure what religious beliefs matter when speaking about individual rights under the law. The whole point of separation of church and state is to ensure that one doesn't railroad the other and it cuts both ways. You can't talk about the separation of church and state and then turn around and try to, based on whatever doctrine (faulty or otherwise) say the law should be X because of religious belief Y. It doesn't work that way.

NOVA, you're absolutely right. Using fear/scare tactics to whip people into a frenzy is no way for a leader of any organization to behave ESPECIALLY one who has responsibility to his God, faith and fellow church members.

[steve]

The important thing here is the lack of understanding of what makes something a right. A right is something you have that only extends to where it would interfere with rights of someone else. People squawk about the right to this and the right to that, but a lot of the time they aren't talking about a right at all.

The government has a long established tradition of tailoring laws to encourage people to behave the way the government wants. Why should we have joint tax returns? Why should the government encourage or even define a legal marriage? The government has no business trying to define how people should live their lives. If someone is doing something that does not affect others, it should be no business of the government.

[ehyou]

If everybody lived by the Golden Rule the world would be a better place.

[novatiger]

Just to be clear, my complaint is not about marriage (we're winning that one). I only mentioned the Supreme Court in reference to my activism. My complaint is about the level of animosity directed against us by many churches as exemplified by the recording.

Even if (when) we win all the legal protections we're after, this dogma will continue to make large areas of the country not just uncomfortable but unsafe for us.

[Deleted]

Yeah but the religious argument is brought on my the legalistic one. Which is why I brought it up.

[steve]

The problem is the government not making a clear dividing line between what should and should not be legislated.

One of the important things about tolerance is to practice what you preach. For instance, there is absolutely nothing wrong with religious leaders saying that believe that homosexuality is wrong. There is a big problem when religious leaders encourage people to interfere with others writes, even to the point of violence, simply because someone has different beliefs.

There is another good example. Some of you may have watched the series Big Love or Sister Wives, which depicts polygamy. Should polygamy be against the law? If all of those involved are consenting adults, I don't believe it is the business of the government to interfere. It doesn't mean I believe polygamy is right and there are some obvious observations of why it is not, but it is not something that interferes with the rights of others.

[baldy1]

Apr 4, 2013 11:46:48 GMT -6 ehyou said:

If everybody lived by the Golden Rule the world would be a better place.

We used to have "golden rule bar b que" restaurant in Hoover by my house. I do agree that I everybody lived by Golden Rule, that town woulda been a much better place. Everybody would be all happy and fat from all the BBQ.

Wait.....you....weren't talking about BBQ.

[petefrankenschmidt]

You mean North Korea isn't going nuclear because of gays in America?

[novatiger]

Don't worry about North Korea. The Gay Mafia snuck in and replaced their nukes with glitter bombs.

[Norm]

Apr 4, 2013 18:47:00 GMT -6 novatiger said:

Don't worry about North Korea. The Gay Mafia snuck in and replaced their nukes with glitter bombs.

Excellent.

[eddie]

Glitter Bombs- hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Deleted]

The mental image of glitter bombs is epic.